I definitely think there's something to what you're saying here. I was thinking about the Foundation show the other day and wondering if it was "a big deal" to people or not. I read the books as a teenager and remembered liking the slow, spread out structure of the story and was personally a little turned off by the push to make it more of an action adventure for TV. But I realized I had no idea if this was a "big show" people were into or not - are people excited about this show and talking about theories and what's next? I can seek out reviews of the show but that's an active choice/effort, it's not really in the ether for me.
I think a big part of it is isolation from the pandemic. My office is still closed and that kind of cuts off a big source of those water-cooler conversations. I'm also about 90% off of social media these days so I'm not tied into communities through that either. I wonder if the pandemic plus backlash against social media has started to somewhat remove people from their broader community bubbles and make our media consumption a bit more personal. There's also so much choice now that I just *can't* watch everything so I pick the things most exciting to me vs the big cultural phenomenon things you "have to watch". With streaming I don't really see TV ads that signal to me this is something people are going to be into. The closest thing is the "popular on Netflix" titles, which I think is what drove shows like Tiger King and Squid Games.
To me, the peak of the "big show" was Lost. I remember watching an episode, having my mind blown, talking about it at work, theorizing on forums, and being ready to watch the next episode live when it aired the next week. I think the on-demand delivery format has kind of killed that since now it's personal choice when you watch the show, and if you binge it or space it out. That convenience is great but it defocuses the excitement. Lost happened at the sweet spot where TV hadn't moved to streaming but the internet was very active with lots of forums and ways to connect to other fans. I think the MCU movies also worked that way by focusing everyone's excitement around the release dates of the big movies that you had to see quickly or risk spoilers. On-demand Disney+ releases are awesome but I'll watch Black Widow when I want, it's not an event anymore and being off of social media means spoilers are way less likely so there's no pressure to watch NOW.
I do think the freedom from big events combined with the wealth of options is leading more people to a wider variety of content. My parents in their 60s told me the other day about this great show called "Locke and Key" and I was amazed they had found it (and told them its a fantastic comic series). I'm actually strongly considering buying them the Locke and Key trades for Christmas, which is not something I would have thought they'd be into before. For myself, I've been reading a much wider variety of comics on Comixology, and listening to much broader music since I can stream anything ever recorded. While it's kind of sad to not have as many big events, I also hope that a broader experience opens people's eyes to new things as they explore.
In my peer group of people in their 20s our desire to seek out indie, underground, or alternative stories are in part a reaction to being dissatisfied with an overabundance of Marvel and Star Wars stories.
We're entering a new decade with a new generation of talent and readers. There's no reason that the conversation surrounding comics should be exclusively Marvel and DC.
Manga's boost in sales isn't a fluke. It's because Japanese comics are exploring a wider degree of genres usually only found in indie. But the key to manga's success (in my opinion) is that they're able to explore these new and often taboo ideas while targeting their comics to a youth audience.
If you're looking for big pop-culture phenomenons are unite youth cultures, fear not, they're still around. They just might not look like what their parents liked growing up. And that's the way it should be.
I see it with my students as well. They are all finding their small niches which makes it much easier for them to make connections and friends -- find a place to truly belong rather than joining a bigger group because they are friends with one or two people in that group. It's now the norm (or rapidly becoming the norm) to not be part of those bigger groups at all and to only be part of the small group that suits you.
The downside to this is not being able to build a sense of belonging in the larger community--to be a whole school. Each little group wants to take care of the school and change the habits of those few who mess it up, but it's difficult to get them all together to show that pride and outnumber the few (because they are few themselves in their small groups).
In comics, I love the small groups, the greater acceptance and growth of "indie" comics, and more people feeling they belong because they can join the small groups. That makes it difficult, though, to bring everyone together in their enjoyment of the medium. Often, indie readers will go to the Marvel events because it's an event of comics and we all felt that sense of belonging to that larger community. Now, it is splintered, and I feel the energy is in small balls in small places not to come together anytime soon. That has a me a little sad.
Perhaps when the pandemic turns to endemic, we'll see that energy come back together in celebration of the full community. I hope so. I miss it.
I think you're right that there was a pre-pandemic peak of BIG EVENTS. And then the pandemic further accelerated a fragmentation of media that was already happening and made BIG EVENTS impossible, no matter how hard someone tried to make something feel important. But, and I'm just thinking out loud after reading your email with my coffee, the fragmentation of movies/TV feels very different than the fragmentation of comics.
There's a new Marvel or Star Wars show on almost every week. It doesn't feel special anymore. They're great! But they're not special. The impact of these stories has been diluted. But with the fragmentation of comics, the impact of the stories feels more concentrated. Especially with substack comics.
A lot of it has to do with delivery. We made a choice to sign up for these things by creators whose work we love, and that work is delivered to our inbox regularly. It feels so personal. And the format is, I think, making writers more conscious about the structure of their stories. With creators having more outlets, there's more room for different kinds of stories. I do miss the big cultural conversations around events, but among the big two, big events got diluted and don't feel big or eventful anymore. I'm an old man now and I just want to read a good story well told.
I think it's both. Yes everything is splintered now. With so many more places to get content not just comics but alternative forms of entertainment as well that splinters the culture and the market. So the niches get smaller and at the same time, there's more of niches than ever. Smaller pieces of a bigger pie if you will. But I'm not sure if the pie is actually any bigger, maybe slightly bigger but not double or anywhere near that. But this also splinters the culture. Smaller niches of interest. Comics have always been a niched market but now even more so I feel. Movies aside, they are like a different world, where the books and the movies are almost two separate markets. Sure there's crossover but I would guess that's pretty small. There's probably more comic movie viewers than there are comic readers. What are your thoughts?
I like that comics aren't centralized around a few brands or writers. Like you said, more voices and subjects are in the field now. We change as grow, so it's good to have that bigger range to amuse, connect, feed ourselves with.
I definitely think there's something to what you're saying here. I was thinking about the Foundation show the other day and wondering if it was "a big deal" to people or not. I read the books as a teenager and remembered liking the slow, spread out structure of the story and was personally a little turned off by the push to make it more of an action adventure for TV. But I realized I had no idea if this was a "big show" people were into or not - are people excited about this show and talking about theories and what's next? I can seek out reviews of the show but that's an active choice/effort, it's not really in the ether for me.
I think a big part of it is isolation from the pandemic. My office is still closed and that kind of cuts off a big source of those water-cooler conversations. I'm also about 90% off of social media these days so I'm not tied into communities through that either. I wonder if the pandemic plus backlash against social media has started to somewhat remove people from their broader community bubbles and make our media consumption a bit more personal. There's also so much choice now that I just *can't* watch everything so I pick the things most exciting to me vs the big cultural phenomenon things you "have to watch". With streaming I don't really see TV ads that signal to me this is something people are going to be into. The closest thing is the "popular on Netflix" titles, which I think is what drove shows like Tiger King and Squid Games.
To me, the peak of the "big show" was Lost. I remember watching an episode, having my mind blown, talking about it at work, theorizing on forums, and being ready to watch the next episode live when it aired the next week. I think the on-demand delivery format has kind of killed that since now it's personal choice when you watch the show, and if you binge it or space it out. That convenience is great but it defocuses the excitement. Lost happened at the sweet spot where TV hadn't moved to streaming but the internet was very active with lots of forums and ways to connect to other fans. I think the MCU movies also worked that way by focusing everyone's excitement around the release dates of the big movies that you had to see quickly or risk spoilers. On-demand Disney+ releases are awesome but I'll watch Black Widow when I want, it's not an event anymore and being off of social media means spoilers are way less likely so there's no pressure to watch NOW.
I do think the freedom from big events combined with the wealth of options is leading more people to a wider variety of content. My parents in their 60s told me the other day about this great show called "Locke and Key" and I was amazed they had found it (and told them its a fantastic comic series). I'm actually strongly considering buying them the Locke and Key trades for Christmas, which is not something I would have thought they'd be into before. For myself, I've been reading a much wider variety of comics on Comixology, and listening to much broader music since I can stream anything ever recorded. While it's kind of sad to not have as many big events, I also hope that a broader experience opens people's eyes to new things as they explore.
In my peer group of people in their 20s our desire to seek out indie, underground, or alternative stories are in part a reaction to being dissatisfied with an overabundance of Marvel and Star Wars stories.
We're entering a new decade with a new generation of talent and readers. There's no reason that the conversation surrounding comics should be exclusively Marvel and DC.
Manga's boost in sales isn't a fluke. It's because Japanese comics are exploring a wider degree of genres usually only found in indie. But the key to manga's success (in my opinion) is that they're able to explore these new and often taboo ideas while targeting their comics to a youth audience.
If you're looking for big pop-culture phenomenons are unite youth cultures, fear not, they're still around. They just might not look like what their parents liked growing up. And that's the way it should be.
I agree with you: it's both.
I see it with my students as well. They are all finding their small niches which makes it much easier for them to make connections and friends -- find a place to truly belong rather than joining a bigger group because they are friends with one or two people in that group. It's now the norm (or rapidly becoming the norm) to not be part of those bigger groups at all and to only be part of the small group that suits you.
The downside to this is not being able to build a sense of belonging in the larger community--to be a whole school. Each little group wants to take care of the school and change the habits of those few who mess it up, but it's difficult to get them all together to show that pride and outnumber the few (because they are few themselves in their small groups).
In comics, I love the small groups, the greater acceptance and growth of "indie" comics, and more people feeling they belong because they can join the small groups. That makes it difficult, though, to bring everyone together in their enjoyment of the medium. Often, indie readers will go to the Marvel events because it's an event of comics and we all felt that sense of belonging to that larger community. Now, it is splintered, and I feel the energy is in small balls in small places not to come together anytime soon. That has a me a little sad.
Perhaps when the pandemic turns to endemic, we'll see that energy come back together in celebration of the full community. I hope so. I miss it.
I think you're right that there was a pre-pandemic peak of BIG EVENTS. And then the pandemic further accelerated a fragmentation of media that was already happening and made BIG EVENTS impossible, no matter how hard someone tried to make something feel important. But, and I'm just thinking out loud after reading your email with my coffee, the fragmentation of movies/TV feels very different than the fragmentation of comics.
There's a new Marvel or Star Wars show on almost every week. It doesn't feel special anymore. They're great! But they're not special. The impact of these stories has been diluted. But with the fragmentation of comics, the impact of the stories feels more concentrated. Especially with substack comics.
A lot of it has to do with delivery. We made a choice to sign up for these things by creators whose work we love, and that work is delivered to our inbox regularly. It feels so personal. And the format is, I think, making writers more conscious about the structure of their stories. With creators having more outlets, there's more room for different kinds of stories. I do miss the big cultural conversations around events, but among the big two, big events got diluted and don't feel big or eventful anymore. I'm an old man now and I just want to read a good story well told.
I think it's both. Yes everything is splintered now. With so many more places to get content not just comics but alternative forms of entertainment as well that splinters the culture and the market. So the niches get smaller and at the same time, there's more of niches than ever. Smaller pieces of a bigger pie if you will. But I'm not sure if the pie is actually any bigger, maybe slightly bigger but not double or anywhere near that. But this also splinters the culture. Smaller niches of interest. Comics have always been a niched market but now even more so I feel. Movies aside, they are like a different world, where the books and the movies are almost two separate markets. Sure there's crossover but I would guess that's pretty small. There's probably more comic movie viewers than there are comic readers. What are your thoughts?
I like that comics aren't centralized around a few brands or writers. Like you said, more voices and subjects are in the field now. We change as grow, so it's good to have that bigger range to amuse, connect, feed ourselves with.