"But I'm going to spend more time over here. I feel like it's everyone looking for the right afterparty and it's just such a weird feeling."
That really nails how I feel about it. Just wanted to say hi! I read all of these but should comment more. For me, my social energy has been shifting more to places like Substack and Discord, where I can interact with people I know and like without having to sift through marketing or angry people.
Yeah, I know what you mean. I feel more motivated to just put more energy into the other social medias I am enjoying, rather than seeking out new ones, personally, but I understand that's a different situation when you're a writer and want to promote your work, or do want to stay connected with people. It really depends.
I think superhero comics should take big swings and risks. It feels like a long time since there was a truly risky superhero book that really changed a character. For me, the first 25 issues of Zdarsky's Daredevil were super risky and it really paid off.
It feels like a long time since we've had something big like a Marvel Knights, Ultimate Universe or to different extent The New 52. I'm not saying we should be super edgy , let's not give Spiderman an AK , but it feels like a long time since characters were allowed to do something bold. It was your Batman run that got me into Batman books, the idea that Batman isn't the only one watching Gotham and that there is an older force in Gotham was so interesting to me, it was a new concept, a fresh take.
Another example I always love for bold new takes is Garth Ennis' Punisher MAX. The way he took Punisher seriously and told some incredible and tense stories was refreshing. It felt new, even compared to Ennis and Dillion's Marvel Knights: Punisher run. It was a risk, everything from the language to the gore and the re writing of Punisher's origin, all of it risky, all of it stay true to the Punisher and it was fantastic.
I wouldn't say we need a line wide reboot across all companies, but maybe encouraging writers and editors to take more risks would be a good move for Superhero comics. I've found myself reading more and more creator owned books, I remember getting to the end of Nocterra issue 11 and thinking where does the story go from here? I was excited, I don't feel that often anymore with superhero books. I'd like to see more risks taken personally.
(sorry if I got off topic, really love your work! Thanks for all the great stories!)
100%. The Big Two need to take bigger swings again. There are a few books at each company that are doing it, but they need to make it more of a mandate across the line.
Every iconic superhero run took massive swings that pissed off a part of the fanbase. That's not to say every time a fanbase was mad the story was good or the changes endured, but there's some correlation there. The Big Two need to operate less off fear and really let creators go buck wild on a line-wide scale. I'm honestly shocked there haven't been more attempts to update Batman's rogues in recent years. Only a few have gotten that treatment. Maybe it'll take some fresh blood, maybe it'll take the editors and execs relaxing a bit.
As for the MCU and DCU, I'm sure they'll return to greater success, but I think we very well might be past the peak of the MCU's popularity. Time will tell.
The massive success and proliferation of superhero tales over the last twenty years, along with their long-enduring presence, shows the power of these stories. With such a crowded marketplace, though, I think it’s more important than ever to take Scott’s (and Neil Gaiman’s) advice for writers to tell the stories that are most important to themselves.
What really needs to evolve are the ways we compensate creators so that they can make ends meet while telling important stories, which is why I’m heartened by what’s going on with the WGA and SAG-AFTRA and other creative unions, and with what’s brewing at DSTLRY.
There’s some amazing storytelling out there right now, and I’m fundamentally optimistic that there’s even more to come in the near future.
Everything you're saying about comics and the MCU is spot on. The animated Spider-verse movies are simply brilliant in so many ways. I actually think it's better than the MCU but what I love most is how these companies are tying things in together to create something really meaningful, story-wise, and perfectly cohesive.
I'm not on social media anymore, and I honestly don't know how anyone can be bothered learning to navigate a new platform. I so much prefer following people directly that I'm interested in. I follow blogs via RSS, including free substacks so my email isn't clogged up. And I truly appreciate the paid offerings people have, especially with Discord servers, as it feels less intrusive on my time, and I feel more free to pick and choose when to step in and read, unlike social media where you have to hope the algorithm will not only show your stuff to others, but show you stuff you want to see without having to mindlessly scroll.
Anyway, I appreciate your method of sharing here and on Discord :)
As far as superhero comics go, I think you’ve hit it on the head in that it’s time for more big swings to be taken with our superheroes. I think some things recently, especially because of the expanded media presence, have begun to garner more of a feel of the “same old same old.” In contrast, creator-owned comics don’t necessarily tend to feel that way.
However, superhero (or Big 2) comics in general have more than just the fence to clear with those big swings, because even if there’s a big change in a run that really mixes it up for the character (such as Nocenti’s Daredevil or King’s Batman), they still get returned back to the status quo at the end of the day. While the journey is fun and surprising, the destinations become all too familiar. That may be why your Zero Year and Last Knight on Earth resonate with readers (and yourself) so much. Your Bruce gets a definitive beginning (which changes the status quo) and ending (via Last Knight), rather than just a handful of arcs that gets handed off across different creative teams over time.
I think that’s why Miles resonates with people too. He’s told all these things have to happen because they always have, but instead of going with it he simply says “No.”
I think Big 2 comics have so many different stories they could tell. Not even with their “main” characters. There’s so much that could be done with Ghost Rider or Zatanna.
First Flash was a great movie. It brought me back to my childhood! Keaton as Batman. I believe if Ezra’s personal issues were not overshadowing it would have been a hit.
As for the state of comics, I think it’s in need of Marvel and DC doing some crazy new shit! Reflecting on my weekly pull list it’s now dominated by creator owned books where creators are taking risks! The only big two books I’m getting these days are Zdarsky’s cause he is going crazy on DD and Bats. I was big on Donny before his break too! Many of the big 2 books I was reading I dropped because they were getting stale especially when compared to your recent comixology books, anything by DWJ, the Geiger universe, Brubaker and Philips, BKV and Staples Saga. I could go on but yes DC and marvel need to shake shit up but comics on a whole are in a creative boom! It’s a great time to be a fan!!
I’m going to throw myself under the bus here a tad, but it is my hot take that any time a non-time-travel story introduces time travel (or a multiverse as an extension), the show has "jumped the shark" for me. Star Gate was the first TV show where I noticed this, but it has been reinforced for me several times since. The actual time-travel episode can be awesome (the latest Spider-man being an example) but it frequently represents a zenith and it is often downhill from there. When anything can happen and be repaired, it dampens the stakes. Given this premise - and the recent storylines - I see DC & Marvel superhero movie fatigue ahead. It will be something from a more limited superhero universe that emerges next. My opinion which is mine.
All of my favorite hero comics are examples of creators taking big swings with their characters. The Dark Knight Returns. Killing Joke. God Loves Man Kills. Even the Death of Superman was a major change up and highly influential to my 14 year old brain at the time.
As someone who's only seen 3 or 4 of the MCU movies, I'm actually going to agree with you that what they've done with the whole thing is incredibly impressive. While the characters they chose to start with (Avengers) and build out from are ones I've never given 2 shits about, I DO have to tip my cap to Fiege and crew's ability to create this massive soap opera across literally dozens of properties, all interlinking to tell this massive story over time. In that way, i think you're right when you say that it's impact might be bigger than Star Wars when all is said and done. After all, isn't Star Wars trying to copy that very blueprint now with the Filoni-verse? Even non-superhero fans have to acknowledge that it's been an unprecedented success. And really, can we blame the MCU creators for the lack of vision across the industry outside of comic book movies? It's not their fault that every other studio has given up on telling original stories. Last I checked, Feige wasn't writing checks over at Universal or Warner Brothers, etc.
Hey Scott, I’m here at SDCC and tried getting into the signing line with you and Jock earlier today but they capped the line. They didn’t care about Substack. Is there a special place I should go to skip the line like you said we could? Thank you and can’t wait to see you tomorrow or Sunday!!
This post is why I thought you should have taken over the DC movies (not that James Gunn is a bad choice). If Marvel and DC want to restart, they need to get to the core of the characters and build out. They need to peel off the plot layers of the canon events and get to the growth elements, Snyder-Style.
I really agree with you but my problem is that MCU is moved my corporations not the independent company it what was same goes for the comics so I think they might just double down on the bland And soulless that’s been inhabiting the marvel shows
I think there’s been a lot of really exciting superhero stories lately, but also that there’s been a definite move towards “manifesto comics”—stories which take stock of the past and which make a statement about what stories can be told now, incorporating but also going beyond the history of the medium. Part of the role of the manifesto comic is to bring the audience along with an idea of change: there’s a good deal of taking stock, touching base, and quite consciously renovating the brand in them (again this isn’t a good or bad thing necessarily, and I think a lot of these stories have been great).
What I hope to see next is a way into telling stories with textured feeling supporting casts and settings which feel lived in. The best marvel comics of the 70s are kind of love letters to being young, male (and white and cis and straight) and living in New York City, and a lot of their strengths and weaknesses derive from that. They feel that they come from a specific place and time and set of relationships, and to be documenting that feel of what it is to be alive right now with all the intensities of heroic fantasy. Whereas a lot of recent books have used their settings and supporting casts primarily to support a thesis about a protagonist and how readers are meant to identify with them. So I would love to see what a more “ecological” style of storytelling can look like now, where the characters are living and struggling in a complex world with lots of different motives and interests in it, and which feel rooted in a specific time and place which the creators want to share with their readers.
"But I'm going to spend more time over here. I feel like it's everyone looking for the right afterparty and it's just such a weird feeling."
That really nails how I feel about it. Just wanted to say hi! I read all of these but should comment more. For me, my social energy has been shifting more to places like Substack and Discord, where I can interact with people I know and like without having to sift through marketing or angry people.
Yeah, I know what you mean. I feel more motivated to just put more energy into the other social medias I am enjoying, rather than seeking out new ones, personally, but I understand that's a different situation when you're a writer and want to promote your work, or do want to stay connected with people. It really depends.
I love Substack and Discord too.
Read more Massive-Verse.
🤣😉
You make a good point 😂
Hi Scott! First time commentor, long time reader.
I think superhero comics should take big swings and risks. It feels like a long time since there was a truly risky superhero book that really changed a character. For me, the first 25 issues of Zdarsky's Daredevil were super risky and it really paid off.
It feels like a long time since we've had something big like a Marvel Knights, Ultimate Universe or to different extent The New 52. I'm not saying we should be super edgy , let's not give Spiderman an AK , but it feels like a long time since characters were allowed to do something bold. It was your Batman run that got me into Batman books, the idea that Batman isn't the only one watching Gotham and that there is an older force in Gotham was so interesting to me, it was a new concept, a fresh take.
Another example I always love for bold new takes is Garth Ennis' Punisher MAX. The way he took Punisher seriously and told some incredible and tense stories was refreshing. It felt new, even compared to Ennis and Dillion's Marvel Knights: Punisher run. It was a risk, everything from the language to the gore and the re writing of Punisher's origin, all of it risky, all of it stay true to the Punisher and it was fantastic.
I wouldn't say we need a line wide reboot across all companies, but maybe encouraging writers and editors to take more risks would be a good move for Superhero comics. I've found myself reading more and more creator owned books, I remember getting to the end of Nocterra issue 11 and thinking where does the story go from here? I was excited, I don't feel that often anymore with superhero books. I'd like to see more risks taken personally.
(sorry if I got off topic, really love your work! Thanks for all the great stories!)
Yes, Punisher!
100%. The Big Two need to take bigger swings again. There are a few books at each company that are doing it, but they need to make it more of a mandate across the line.
It’s time to take risks rooted in the sort of authenticity that inspires others to do the same.
Well said.
Every iconic superhero run took massive swings that pissed off a part of the fanbase. That's not to say every time a fanbase was mad the story was good or the changes endured, but there's some correlation there. The Big Two need to operate less off fear and really let creators go buck wild on a line-wide scale. I'm honestly shocked there haven't been more attempts to update Batman's rogues in recent years. Only a few have gotten that treatment. Maybe it'll take some fresh blood, maybe it'll take the editors and execs relaxing a bit.
As for the MCU and DCU, I'm sure they'll return to greater success, but I think we very well might be past the peak of the MCU's popularity. Time will tell.
Scarecrow seems ripe.
The massive success and proliferation of superhero tales over the last twenty years, along with their long-enduring presence, shows the power of these stories. With such a crowded marketplace, though, I think it’s more important than ever to take Scott’s (and Neil Gaiman’s) advice for writers to tell the stories that are most important to themselves.
What really needs to evolve are the ways we compensate creators so that they can make ends meet while telling important stories, which is why I’m heartened by what’s going on with the WGA and SAG-AFTRA and other creative unions, and with what’s brewing at DSTLRY.
There’s some amazing storytelling out there right now, and I’m fundamentally optimistic that there’s even more to come in the near future.
🤟
Everything you're saying about comics and the MCU is spot on. The animated Spider-verse movies are simply brilliant in so many ways. I actually think it's better than the MCU but what I love most is how these companies are tying things in together to create something really meaningful, story-wise, and perfectly cohesive.
I'm not on social media anymore, and I honestly don't know how anyone can be bothered learning to navigate a new platform. I so much prefer following people directly that I'm interested in. I follow blogs via RSS, including free substacks so my email isn't clogged up. And I truly appreciate the paid offerings people have, especially with Discord servers, as it feels less intrusive on my time, and I feel more free to pick and choose when to step in and read, unlike social media where you have to hope the algorithm will not only show your stuff to others, but show you stuff you want to see without having to mindlessly scroll.
Anyway, I appreciate your method of sharing here and on Discord :)
As far as superhero comics go, I think you’ve hit it on the head in that it’s time for more big swings to be taken with our superheroes. I think some things recently, especially because of the expanded media presence, have begun to garner more of a feel of the “same old same old.” In contrast, creator-owned comics don’t necessarily tend to feel that way.
However, superhero (or Big 2) comics in general have more than just the fence to clear with those big swings, because even if there’s a big change in a run that really mixes it up for the character (such as Nocenti’s Daredevil or King’s Batman), they still get returned back to the status quo at the end of the day. While the journey is fun and surprising, the destinations become all too familiar. That may be why your Zero Year and Last Knight on Earth resonate with readers (and yourself) so much. Your Bruce gets a definitive beginning (which changes the status quo) and ending (via Last Knight), rather than just a handful of arcs that gets handed off across different creative teams over time.
I think that’s why Miles resonates with people too. He’s told all these things have to happen because they always have, but instead of going with it he simply says “No.”
I think Big 2 comics have so many different stories they could tell. Not even with their “main” characters. There’s so much that could be done with Ghost Rider or Zatanna.
First Flash was a great movie. It brought me back to my childhood! Keaton as Batman. I believe if Ezra’s personal issues were not overshadowing it would have been a hit.
As for the state of comics, I think it’s in need of Marvel and DC doing some crazy new shit! Reflecting on my weekly pull list it’s now dominated by creator owned books where creators are taking risks! The only big two books I’m getting these days are Zdarsky’s cause he is going crazy on DD and Bats. I was big on Donny before his break too! Many of the big 2 books I was reading I dropped because they were getting stale especially when compared to your recent comixology books, anything by DWJ, the Geiger universe, Brubaker and Philips, BKV and Staples Saga. I could go on but yes DC and marvel need to shake shit up but comics on a whole are in a creative boom! It’s a great time to be a fan!!
I’m going to throw myself under the bus here a tad, but it is my hot take that any time a non-time-travel story introduces time travel (or a multiverse as an extension), the show has "jumped the shark" for me. Star Gate was the first TV show where I noticed this, but it has been reinforced for me several times since. The actual time-travel episode can be awesome (the latest Spider-man being an example) but it frequently represents a zenith and it is often downhill from there. When anything can happen and be repaired, it dampens the stakes. Given this premise - and the recent storylines - I see DC & Marvel superhero movie fatigue ahead. It will be something from a more limited superhero universe that emerges next. My opinion which is mine.
All of my favorite hero comics are examples of creators taking big swings with their characters. The Dark Knight Returns. Killing Joke. God Loves Man Kills. Even the Death of Superman was a major change up and highly influential to my 14 year old brain at the time.
I feel like Ram V is doing this with Detective.
His Swamp Thing was a surprise as well. Though I like the "Metal" story quite a bit.
I’m big into anything Ram V is writing.
Alan Moore is my favorite. I miss him in comics for this reason.
As someone who's only seen 3 or 4 of the MCU movies, I'm actually going to agree with you that what they've done with the whole thing is incredibly impressive. While the characters they chose to start with (Avengers) and build out from are ones I've never given 2 shits about, I DO have to tip my cap to Fiege and crew's ability to create this massive soap opera across literally dozens of properties, all interlinking to tell this massive story over time. In that way, i think you're right when you say that it's impact might be bigger than Star Wars when all is said and done. After all, isn't Star Wars trying to copy that very blueprint now with the Filoni-verse? Even non-superhero fans have to acknowledge that it's been an unprecedented success. And really, can we blame the MCU creators for the lack of vision across the industry outside of comic book movies? It's not their fault that every other studio has given up on telling original stories. Last I checked, Feige wasn't writing checks over at Universal or Warner Brothers, etc.
Hey Scott, I’m here at SDCC and tried getting into the signing line with you and Jock earlier today but they capped the line. They didn’t care about Substack. Is there a special place I should go to skip the line like you said we could? Thank you and can’t wait to see you tomorrow or Sunday!!
This post is why I thought you should have taken over the DC movies (not that James Gunn is a bad choice). If Marvel and DC want to restart, they need to get to the core of the characters and build out. They need to peel off the plot layers of the canon events and get to the growth elements, Snyder-Style.
I really agree with you but my problem is that MCU is moved my corporations not the independent company it what was same goes for the comics so I think they might just double down on the bland And soulless that’s been inhabiting the marvel shows
Hi Scott—
I think there’s been a lot of really exciting superhero stories lately, but also that there’s been a definite move towards “manifesto comics”—stories which take stock of the past and which make a statement about what stories can be told now, incorporating but also going beyond the history of the medium. Part of the role of the manifesto comic is to bring the audience along with an idea of change: there’s a good deal of taking stock, touching base, and quite consciously renovating the brand in them (again this isn’t a good or bad thing necessarily, and I think a lot of these stories have been great).
What I hope to see next is a way into telling stories with textured feeling supporting casts and settings which feel lived in. The best marvel comics of the 70s are kind of love letters to being young, male (and white and cis and straight) and living in New York City, and a lot of their strengths and weaknesses derive from that. They feel that they come from a specific place and time and set of relationships, and to be documenting that feel of what it is to be alive right now with all the intensities of heroic fantasy. Whereas a lot of recent books have used their settings and supporting casts primarily to support a thesis about a protagonist and how readers are meant to identify with them. So I would love to see what a more “ecological” style of storytelling can look like now, where the characters are living and struggling in a complex world with lots of different motives and interests in it, and which feel rooted in a specific time and place which the creators want to share with their readers.